The Great Divide – The Gender Gap in the Hunting Community
Thanks once again to Holly, the NorCal Cazadora who appears to have become a regular source of ideas for me of late. This time, in her recent post about the women’s shooting clinic, she mentioned that someone had told her about an exciting hunting opportunity, but then responded to her inquiries that the hunt was for men only.
After a bit of righteous indignation, she went on to tell about the shooting clinic and the great time she and her friends had there. But the seed was planted… or actually, the seed was already there, but her post provided enough fertilizer and water to get it moving.
So anyway… here goes…
A little while back, a group of women on Jesse’s Hunting and Outdoors forum was talking about setting up a hunting trip. The impetus for the discussion was an ongoing conversational thread about how some of them feel “out of place” at most hunting camps because they’re (women) usually an extreme minority around the campfire.
And that’s true enough. Who wants to be the only swan in a nest of ducklings? When you’re different you get noticed, and that can be an awkward position to be in. There aren’t many women hunters out there, and honestly, I can see why they might feel uncomfortable in camp without other women around to share attention, or to at least deflect the focus from themselves.
For their part, a lot of men tend to feel a little self-conscious when women are present in camp too. They have to second-guess behaviors and topics of conversation that might be offensive to the ladies. Is it OK to fart? Should I tell this great, bawdy joke I just heard?
When the guys start to modify that behavior, it can make the woman feel bad, because she feels like she’s now interfering with the men’s experience. This makes her feel even more like the spotlight is on her, and now it’s negative attention.
And sure enough, some men might feel restrained, and may even resent the source of that pressure… the woman in camp… the “intruder”. Hunting camp has, by and large, always been a “men’s club”. There are probably a fair number of guys who want to keep it that way, although I’d say there are far more men who would welcome women into the camp and willingly modify inappropriate behavior if that’s what it takes to make them feel comfortable. Somewhere in the middle are the guys who would say, “this is what hunting camp is like. If you want to be part of it, warts and all, you’re welcome to come along.”
Anyway, there’s a lot to this conversation, and I can’t carry it alone. It gets pretty convoluted with a real Catch-22 twist to it, so let me just get back to the women planning their hunt…
As I understood it, they wanted to do a hunt where women would not be the minority in camp, and where gender tension would be a non-issue. It wouldn’t be guys or girls in camp, only hunters. And that’s an idea I could really get behind.
So, because I have some contacts at places like Tejon Ranch that could host a small to moderate group of hunters, I offered to help set something up. We could have a good hunt on prime property without the tension convention. I was rebuffed, mildy at first, but then blatantly told that this was a women-only hunt. No men allowed!
Whoa! Now that hurt. I’m not some super-sensitive, metrosexual, city boy, but I do have feelings and they weren’t ready for that. Nobody said it was a women-only hunt before. I backed away from the conversation, stung and stunned. I mean, really? These women were just talking about how they felt being excluded from hunting camps because of their gender, and they’d just done exactly that to me.
At first I was pissed and bitter. My initial response was to think, “well, the hell with them, then. They’re on their own!”
But then I backed off and tried to see a different perspective. Were they just reacting to their own experiences of being excluded from this male-dominated sport for so long? The rationale seems to have been that, “men have always excluded us, so we’ll do our own thing and we can exclude men!”
If that’s the argument, then that’s not OK.
Exclusion breeds exclusion. Justifying a bad behavior based on another bad behavior only perpetuates the problem. There’s no such thing as separate-but-equal. No matter how you rationalize it, there’s only separate or together. Like any other policy of segregation, the end result is that the initial problem hasn’t gone away, and is probably compounded now because the separation has been formalized. Boys on that side of the room. Girls on this side.
Or was it more about empowerment? “Look, we can do it too!”
Is there a desire to prove (to whom? To men… to one another?) that women can organize and hold a hunt without men… to demonstrate that they don’t need us? Why? There may be a valid rationale there, but I can’t relate to the idea. They don’t have to go it alone. An offer of collaboration or partnership is not an expression of doubt about anyone’s abilities. Honestly, I’d say most men already recognize the fact that women can do anything they set their minds to, including hunting. What’s to prove?
Or is there really even all that much to it?
I suppose there’s nothing wrong with wanting to do a trip with “just the girls,” anymore than there’s a problem holding a hunt for “just the guys.” There are folks who feel the need to get away from the opposite sex from time to time. Heck, it might even be healthy.
Regardless, I think it’s important that we not perpetuate the schism between “us and them”… Mars vs Venus. We can’t deny our differences, but we can work through them in hunting camp just as we’ve done in so many other aspects of our lives. There will probably never be as many women hunting as there are men, but I think it behooves us and the sport to start tearing down some of the barricades that can make them feel so unwelcome that they want to simply create their own hunting camps instead of joining ours.
Hunters of any gender are ALWAYS welcome in MY camp. I look forward to the day when everyone else will say the same.
Hunters of all genders are always welcome in my hunting camp as well. I love having the variety.
My wife has been in our hunting camps for the last 5 years and I just love that she is involved in camp and likes to go hunting with the rest of us.
She has begun to try and recruit other women and I couldn’t be happier about that. I dont care who they are, or if they are male or female. What I care about is that they get into the outdoors and enjoy themselves.
May 20th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
I thought you were talking about the discussion I’d been in on until I read this: “I was rebuffed, mildy at first, but then blatantly told that this was a women-only hunt. No men allowed!” Did I miss a separate thread on that same topic?
Honestly, I’m ambivalent about a lot of gender exclusive things, because I love men, and men have a tendency to feel ridiculously comfortable around me. But from what I saw at the women’s shooting clinic I went to on Sunday, women-only events may be the only way you get some women involved.
I hunt mostly alone or in mixed groups, but I’ve been on a couple women-only hunts and I’ve found they have a couple qualities you don’t find in hunts when men are there. Some men like to rib each other for bad shots; women are more inclined to be supportive, cheering good shots or brushing off bad ones, saying things like, “Oh, that was an impossible shot.” The result is it feels a little less competitive and intimidating. (Even if men don’t rib us, the fact that we see you doing to other men it is intimidating.)
There’s also a tremendous sense of adventure – just the girls going off and doing something that most of the world thinks we can’t do at all, or can’t do by ourselves. I always find myself grinning a lot more on all-girl hunts. Similarly, there’s a difference between just hunting with my boyfriend (huge sense of partnership and bonding that makes me feel so excited to be with him, so lucky to have found him in the first place) and hunting with other guys without my boyfriend (feeling of “I am not just a hunting girlfriend – I’m a hunter who can carry her own with anyone”).
I really enjoy each of these types of hunts, but I’ll continue to support any opportunity that helps women take up hunting, even if it means making it women-only, because doing otherwise would be shooting ourselves in the foot. Men are leaving hunting in droves; women have the strong potential to bolster our numbers. If we follow strict equality down the path of extinction, what good does that do us?
But perhaps we can revisit this conversation when all the men-only hunting dinners full of hookers, strippers or whatever it is that can’t be shared with us women are done, and when the men-only squirrel hunts (on pain of expulsion!) are done, and when women like Blessed can go to pick up a hunting license and not have the jerk behind the counter assume it’s not for her. Women have come a long way, and though I’ve encountered precious few obstacles in my short time as a huntress, we still have a long way to go.
May 20th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Excellent statement Arthur, I concur with what you said 100%
I have found that over the last two decades of being a licensed guide and taking out literally hundreds of hunters into the field, that women generally have been much better shots than men.
A good number of these hunters have been Man/Wife clients with several of them being military ex-military or reservists. And within that category there were several men whom were self professed “Sniper Trained” with two of those whom were still active and had actually killed human beings!
Those two individuals wives, were better shots than their husbands and each had bagged better Tuskers and Antlers than their husbands had!
I have just visited Nor-cal Cazadora’s blog and read the article which Holly had written about the women’s shooting clinic (great piece of writing by the way) and there, you can see for yourself that those women are really wonderful shooters and are having a fun time at the range.
I, have also seen this first hand as my wife Sylvia is an excellent shot as well.
Now,after having stated all of the above and reading about women having better hand to eye coordination than men etc. etc. I have come to my own conclusions and resolved myself to another unexplored and perhaps even (volatile) theory concerning this subject. This might spark another heated debate but please remember that it is only a presented theory and I can be convinced to believe otherwise with the proper persuading arguments.
I believe that Men, sometimes will suffer from the Testosterone driven emotions which will manifest themselves into things like (buck fever) or simply by placing too much pressure upon themselves to perform.
Women, on the other hand are what I have referred to as “cold shots” which means that they do not become overly excited, and they take the proper amount of time to calculate their shot before pulling the trigger.
There also was this incident where the wife of a long time client had made a poorly placed shot on a really huge and amply tusked boar. The wind was high and the yardage was about 200+ with the bullet taking out the hind quarters.
We all ran over to the downed animal which had wound up, down in a small depression and it could not climb out, so there was no need to cut the dogs loose for a retrieval.
I handed my 44 magnum Colt Anaconda over to her and asked her to place a finishing shot into the animal. My mistake, I assumed that first, she wanted to do such a thing and secondly, forgot to ask if she was comfortable handling a pistol of this large caliber.
She cocked the pistol and proceeded to nervously aim at the animal which was of course snapping its tusks, foaming at the mouth and growling (yes! Boars will sometimes growl, almost “lion” like in sound).
By this time I had jumped down and maneuvered myself behind the animal grabbing it by the hind legs and all the while detailing to her where to place the “coup de grace” .
With all of this excitement, and with her husband feverishly coaching her from above and everyone else also interjecting their two cents worth as well, she was quickly loosing her nerve and had that familiar wide eyed stare which told me that the situation was quickly getting out of control.
I was able to talk her down, and when I thought that she was calm enough to understand what I was saying, I then loosened my right hand grip upon the boar (I had flipped it over at this point and was laying full body over it)
I then proceeded to use my right hand as a pointer to show her where to place the shot and (BOOM) I felt the 300 grain wad cutter blow just inches past my hand and right behind the left ear of the animal, it stiffened and then just as quickly relaxed from underneath me.
Was this just a well placed shot, or an accidental discharge from an overly stimulated person whom I should not have given a pistol to in the first place?
Most of the men whom I have placed in similar situations have reacted very calmly and went in and got the job done cleanly and without incident. Each time that a women has been placed into a high stress situation, such as the above incident, (there have been quite a few) their performance has not been so efficient.
does anyone have any theories why this has been? And I do not need anyone telling me to not, hand my pistol over to someone without first ascertaining if they know how to use it. I learned that lesson quite well thank you!
May 21st, 2008 at 3:09 am
TMR, it’s interesting, I thought you were going to go a different direction: I often hear that women are more reluctant to shoot at times when men are certain it’s time. There are a lot of shots I won’t take, much to the irritation of my male hunting partners.
It’s really hard to say what was going on in the situation you described. Me personally, I haven’t fired a handgun since I was a teenager, and I would not be happy if you handed me one at that crucial moment – that’s no time to learn. I would probably hand it back to you. Or would I think to myself, “Oh no, I don’t want to look like the girl who can’t cut it?”
(Hopefully this comment will make it online – my comment last night appears to be awaiting moderation. I must be stuck in a blog-comment-spam-filter thingie.)
May 21st, 2008 at 5:34 am
Once again I find out just how ignorant I’ve been my entire life. From as early as I can remember, I remember Grandmas, aunts, and moms in hunting camps. My mom just went on a hunting trip with my dad, my brother, and grandpa (her dad) this past winter – we all had a great time. I didn’t even realize it was any other way. I generally hunt alone or with family, though – so when “family” goes hunting, the WHOLE family goes hunting generally.
As for women only hunts or men only hunts – I guess that’d be fine. If that’s what they want to do and how they want to do it – well, at least they’re huntin’! Personally, I think hunting camp is a great place to be whether it’s full of men, women, or mixed. It isn’t the gender of the person that makes me enjoy their companionship, it’s the personality and friendship of the person that makes me enjoy their companionship.
May 21st, 2008 at 7:57 am
Holly, sorry about the delay on your comment.. not sure why that one hung up for approval and your other one didn’t. They just moved servers and upgraded the blog software here, so I’m guessing that’s at the root of things… but either way.
As to the JHO thread, it was being read to me by one of the participants (Kat), I didn’t read it personally. Looks like maybe she left out a detail or two.
Anyway, point is, like I said, I can see why some folks might want to have gender-exclusive events. I’m sure it’s a different dynamic when it’s just women, and I know it’s different when it’s only men. Doesn’t require an intimate familiarity with Dr Gray’s stupid little book to recognize this.
I can’t speak for other men, but for my part, I will not plan a gender-exclusive hunt. They often work out that way, because we don’t have many women hunters, and even fewer who will attend when the group is primarily male, but that’s not by design. My goal is to make hunting as inclusive as I can, and to encourage the dialogue to discuss why it’s not. I can’t change the world, but I can work on my part of it.
I don’t deny there’s a long way to go, but recognizing it and changing it are two different things.
I’m with you on looking forward to the day when Blessed can walk in and get a license in the same way and with the same respect as any man could… or when Kat can go into the local gun shop to order a rifle without hearing the stage-whispered comments about women with guns (not positive comments).
Likewise, I can understand how you feel about things like the CWA dinner (not a men-only event, as you know, but certainly male-oriented) with the stripper chicks selling raffle tickets… but that becomes a much larger question, doesn’t it? Hell, you’ve got an entire entertainment and marketing industry to challenge there. Sex sells. Whether it’s raffle tickets, luxury cars, or baked goods.
But on the small scale, you, and the growing ranks of women who are becoming more active in CWA and similar organizations have the power to make positive change. If that’s what you want, make it happen. I’m sure it’ll be an uphill battle, at first, but I expect you’ll find unanticipated support.
“Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid.”
Michael, you’ve got some interesting experiences and to a large extent, they jibe with my own experience and understanding. Women do have an innate marksmanship ability. It’s one of several phsyiological traits that make women excellent hunters. Even better, many of those traits are complementary to those possessed by males, so that as a team, male/female pairs can be a very successful hunters.
As far as freezing up in the clutch, I’ve seen both men and women do that. The professionals say that men are more prone to make snap decisions, which may explain why you gave her the pistol without thinking about whether she could or would use it.
Anyway, I think these are discussions worth having… particularly amongst ourselves.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:13 am
Tom, I wouldn’t call that ignorant; I’d call it heaven. It’s the perfect ideal: Folks just hunt together. Before I was born, my dad’s family was like that: He and his sisters hunted.
Phillip, there is in fact a great group of women at CWA making change happen. I’m in about three meetings a month with that group.
And for the record, I’m OK with cute raffle girls because I understand marketing, and I can even live with their ostentatious displays of cleavage, mostly because I love watching the men act like bucks in rut around them – it cracks me up. But when my boyfriend gets invited to a dinner sponsored by a hunting organization (not CWA) that has female members, but he is told, “Oh, no, you can’t bring Holly,” that’s a problem. That happened about two months ago. I was pretty surprised. I thought that kind of stuff was history.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:57 am
Historically across this great land women have been very active in hunting camp. American Indians had the women butchering, scraping hides, smoking meat & fish etc.. It was the white man that really screwed it up for us guys. I’d enjoy a woman or two in camp always seems that there is dishes to be washed and meals to be cooked might make it a bit more relaxing …….
I’m just kidding…
My wife has no desire to hunt but I do get her to go with me on photo shoots. The compromise I make on those outings is that we have to stay in a motel but it’s a good trade to have her along on the trip. I’ve been on a number of hunts with women and I really don’t notice much difference. I have plenty of male friends I hunt with that behavior gets adjusted depending on who is on the trip. Some folks have an issue with folks taking a nip after dinner so on some hunts it is not brought. I don’t think its so much a gender issue for me it’s more how folks get a long.
May 21st, 2008 at 9:25 am
Yeah, I agree… that may very well be a problem. What organization was it? C’mon.. out ‘em! Let’s see how many members they have here.
This isn’t a new conversation for me, nor, I’m sure, is it for you, but can we explore a thought? And bear with me, because I’m exploring too.
Now, supposing an organization to which I belonged held an event that excluded me because of my gender? Say they held a women-only event, invited Kat and told her I couldn’t go…?
Of course, it’s all justifiable. Women seem to learn shooting and related skills better without the competition and oversight of their male peers. They’re more successful in the nurturing presence of other women, etc. etc. And all of it’s true enough.
How should I feel about that?
I’m actually fine with it, but it’s not for me to decide. It’s for her to decide if she wants to do that kind of thing. If she does, and the event is successful, then there’ll be more of them. And vice versa… if that’s what our women hunters want, then that’s what they’ll get.
So now that same organization notifies me of an event just for men. Call it a men’s retreat or whatever… but no women allowed. Same thing? Maybe… maybe not. What do you say? Which way do we go here?
But the real question here is this… does this get us closer or further from getting more women into the shooting sports?
May 21st, 2008 at 10:29 am
If an organization invites Kat and not you because it plans to provide hot, oiled, bronze men to rub up against her (with or without clothing on), yeah, you should be pissed. If it invites Kat and not you because Kat felt really uncomfortable at the last hunt where she was surrounded by men who admittedly felt weird about her presence and it wants to provide her an opportunity to hunt with a crowd that accepts here … well, if I were you, I would not be pissed. But I’m not you, so that’s your call.
May 21st, 2008 at 11:32 am
Why would I be pissed? I don’t wanna rub against bronzed, hot, oiled men.
Seriously, I still wouldn’t be pissed. If it’s OK for me to go to a strip club, why should she be denied the same opportunity?
But really, I wouldn’t be pissed either way.
But is this getting any closer to a solution?
May 21st, 2008 at 11:42 am
The difference is that no one tells Kat she can’t go to the strip club with you.
I don’t know what kind of relationship you and Kat have, but I think most of America would think it’s inappropriate for an organization funded by men and women – husbands and wives – to say, “Hey, men, leave the little lady at home – we’ve got some hookers for you tonight.” Certainly most American women would not embrace this. Free love for the masses went out of vogue decades ago, man.
This is not to say I know what was going to happen at this dinner I mentioned, but if it were on the up and up, people wouldn’t have to whisper invitations to my boyfriend when I leave the room, would they?
So yeah, there’s a big difference between this scenario and saying, “Women, we’d like to provide a really comfortable environment for you to try your first shooting or your first hunting.” Or, “Kat, if hunting with large groups of men has sucked for you, let’s get a group of women out on a hunt together so you can enjoy camraderie without feeling like you’re spoiling someone’s private party.”
May 21st, 2008 at 11:57 am
You’re absolutely right! There’s a huge difference between the two scenarios. The one with the hookers and such is pure fiction… or very imaginative speculation at best (I don’t know about this organization that “whispered” an invitation to your boyfriend, and maybe it’s everything you say… I suppose it could happen).
The other is realistic and could actually happen. Just like it’s realistic to say that sometimes, some men want to have a gathering without having women around… for whatever reason. Most of the “men’s” events I’ve been to have consisted primarily of a bunch of guys drinking, smoking, and using foul language. There’s nothing more sinister to it, and why they don’t want women there makes no more sense to me than it does to you. But do they really have to justify it? Does that help close the gap, or does it just add resentment and conflict?
I think you may have missed the point that I don’t get pissed if Kat or you or anyone else gets invited to a women-only event… whether it’s a hunt, a shooting clinic, or a bachelorette party. Just because I don’t always understand why folks want to segregate themselves, doesn’t mean there aren’t good enough reasons for it.
I do wonder what we can do to remove some of this segregation. All I’m seeing in this discussion is more barriers. I want to know how to bring some of them down.
I’ve been directed to some problems. How do we solve them?
May 21st, 2008 at 1:31 pm
I think the first way to remove some of the segregation is to talk about the fact that it exists, which is what you’re doing here. Some women may be more comfortable hunting (or at least learning) just with other women. Some men may feel the same way.
Personally, I find this discussion fascinating. As someone who is still at the very beginning of my hunting and shooting journey, one of the things I’ve been pondering is how and from whom I want to learn about hunting and fishing. Some days I think I’d rather have a female mentor. Other days I think I’d rather it were a male.
May 21st, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Philip – I really need to add your blog to my daily reads list, every time I pop over here I find something interesting that I wish I’d picked up on earlier…
But to the discussion, I am often the only woman in our group of hunters – the guys like having me along because I bring good food, they don’t pull any punches when it comes to picking on me for missing shots. I have to remember to be good-natured about it.
May 21st, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Ok, so, wow. I am just not even sure what to say here. I have never seen my name posted so often on a blog. Feels sort of weird.
For the record I don’t even remember reading this to Phillip nor do I recall telling him it was women only. I do recall we were talking about times to set up a hunt at Tejon and that it would lost likely be a small party. In my defense, I think that if I did read this to him, I read all of it including Holly’s little joke at making room for him and he just didn’t listen to me as usual.
Ok, that was a joke… a sexist one but still, just a joke.
I also feel that there are times that women hunting together without men is just fine, as well as men hunting without women. But that doesn’t mean it always has to be that way. Why does it have to be all inclusive or segregated? Why can’t it be some of both.
I very much look forward to hunting with Dana, Holly out with our own dogs and a few other women. That sounds like a fun way to spend the day. But that doesn’t mean I never want to hunt with men around. I really enjoy the times that I have been out with Phillip and Dave. Just like, I am sure, they don’t mind me being around but like to get out now and then with just the men. But that doesn’t make them sexist pigs… just humans.
How do we make it easier to include women in the hunting camps… I don’t know. There are some men that never want women around, there are some that are open and encouraging to having us there. Me personally, I avoid the ones that don’t want us around, and hang out with the more open minded ones. I am not sure I have the answers, but I am open to continuing the conversation.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:20 pm
It seems to me that for the most part, each of you has only expressed what you all are currently experiencing as you seem to be advancing into Unexplored Territories!
This always makes us a little excited,afraid and curious all at the same time, that is.
The dialog here though is pointing in the direction of being open to the “new” possibilities of partnering up with the opposite sex and creating that wonderful balance of Testosterone and Estrogen, the yin and yang of life itself if you will.
I will not even venture to guess which is yin and which is yang, all I know is that it works!
This partnering has a communal basis and is in the purist sense, communal living (tribal) and harkens back to the Native Americans, Celts, Picts, Aboriginal lifestyles etc. etc. and I like to think that it all is leading us back to the basics of life. (Waylon, said it best!) and a more in tune with “Mother Earth” existence. (I really sound like an eco-nut now)
But, overall I would like to see more women, men and children (transgenders) also included, coming out and experiencing what we all have been trying so hard to tell them about and is out there, and readily available to them if only they would stop, look and listen.
That is, the beauty and awe of nature in the raw, while moving more away from a wilderness deprived lifestyle.
Men with their “snap” decisions and women as the “thinkers” I believe, is what kept us on the evolutionary track that led us to the here and now. I am very curious and anticipatory about the direction in which sport hunting will ultimately lead us with all of this interest from both sides.
Oh! and Blessed, jab those guys right back because I have seen quite a few of them miss lots of perfectly doable shot because of that ol’ nemesis, Buck Fever!
May 21st, 2008 at 10:59 pm
P.S. Holly,
It is a direction which I have always taken, (in reference to your #4 post).
I know that the pragmatic way I see things and my boisterous attitude could be misconstrued as overbearing and extremely “Male”
But, I was solely raised by my grandmother and aunts, so I have a little different perspective when it comes to what women can do and how quietly “Strong” they actually are!
I also am a great big fan of the writer: “Robert E. Howard” and especially his character “Conan”!
Conans’s mother gave birth to him upon a battlefield with a sword in her hand and as the battle raged on!
Queen Victoria was a warrior queen, Joan of Arc was an accomplished Swords woman, heck, if I were not a staunch Republican I would vote for Hillary Clinton as I see a like minded warrior quality in her as well.
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:57 am
Phillip, do you want to remove some of the segregation, or all of it? It sounded in your post like you didn’t want any of it, and I don’t think that’s a realistic goal. Once we cut down all the artificial barriers – the ones built on tradition – we’ll still have very real gender differences that I believe will make same-sex outings necessary (for some beginner women) or a relief (for all of us so we can be ourselves, uncensored).
I do think there’s been substantial progress. There’s very little institutionalized segregation left. Men are letting more women into their camps and hunting parties, and the number of bawdy fraternity-like no-women-allowed stuff is declining. It’s a natural result of the fact that women make up a growing proportion of hunters – wifey can’t simply be left at home all the time now.
We could work on changing some attitudes. Generally, I encounter nothing but kindness, acceptance and appreciation from all the men I’ve hunted with and had conversations with on the Internet – even the poor guy who started this on my blog by telling me the fun squirrel hunt he’d mentioned was men-only (I’ve met him once, and he was as nice as can be to me). But I still hear stories about men saying derisive things about women hunters. And I’ve seen some real winners out there on the forums, talking trash like, “Why would I want to take my wife hunting? I go hunting to get away from her,” then proceeding to tell PMS jokes (charming).
Solutions: Men, you are our best allies in this. When you encounter a man who has antiquated attitudes about women, set him straight and tell him about the huntresses you know. If you see institutionalized segregation, speak up and say, “Hey, women hunters are important to our community. Why are we leaving them out?”
Now, someone with a Y chromosome, tell me what women can do to make the process of acceptance go better.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:05 am
TMR, I’m actually ok with “maleness” – I love men, and I find their maleness endearing. My boyfriend and I have managed to find perfect balance between his male tendencies and my female ones – we put them to work where they’re most useful and try not to let them bother us. I don’t think men and women need to be the same. I do think we (as a society) need to try to understand each other and learn to lighten up about those differences.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:13 am
Holly, that’s a great question. And honestly, I’m not sure. Like I said, I’m exploring too.
What I’d like to understand is WHY the segregation is happening. As I’ve mentioned, I think there may be acceptable reasons for it on occasion, and if that’s the case, then why not?
At the same time…
It seems like there are some issues that could be resolved, but instead they’re being avoided by simply holding gender-exclusive events. For example, the discomfort some women feel in camp with men and vice versa is never going to change if women just go hunt with other women. If you have enough female hunting friends to do a girls-only hunt, why not get more of them together to join the group so you’re not the only woman in camp?
This thought is a little more “masculine”, perhaps, but I also think there’s a little hyper-sensitivity that could be addressed. Yes, ladies, most men will adjust their behavior if you’re in camp. But that’s not a bad thing… and certainly not something you should feel guilty about. Most men I know (and yes, I’ve actually talked to several guys about this) do this willingly, because we want to make you feel more comfortable. We don’t mind. It’s not ruining the experience for us, just making a slight change. Remember, we’re out there primarily to hunt not to tell bawdy jokes and pass gas.
I’ll add, as well, that once you have become a regular in camp, I can almost guarantee that some of those behaviors will resurge. Everybody gets comfortable with everybody else, and those who can’t will find another group. That goes whether you’re the new girl in camp or the new guy (although I think men adapt more quickly to other men than women). It’s simple social dynamics.
Like any social change, communication and perseverance are going to be the keys here… there is no quick fix.
I think we all recognize that women hunters are a very new thing in what has been a primarily male-oriented sport for generations. Everything about the industry and the organizations involved (DU, NRA, CWA, etc.) is still centered on men. As Holly points out, change is being made… but there’s still a lot to be changed. It’s not going to change very quickly, because despite the heralded growth, women are still a tiny fraction of the hunting community.
I also recognize that there’s still a good bit of misogyny among hunters out there, just as there is in any other facet of society. I don’t have any suggestions for how to fix that. I think that’s a case where we do just have to move around them and leave them behind. If women (or men) aren’t welcome in your camp, then you’re not welcome in mine.
Perfect answers? I don’t have ‘em. They probably don’t exist. It’ll be a gradual thing, and if the numbers of women hunters truly expand to the levels that some are promoting, that will be the biggest driver to making the change.
So what am I doing for my part? Probably very little.
I hope that opening and participating in discussions like this one will help. It’s an opportunity for me to learn, and I expect that other folks can learn as well. I think there are a lot of things that have never been said, from the perspectives of women as well as men, so here’s the chance to say them.
Also, as I mentioned, I’ve decided that I will not organize any gender-exclusive hunts. I’m not sure what that position really will mean, as I only organize a couple of group hunts per year anyway, but it’s a place to stand. I’m not saying that gender-exclusive hunts are a totally negative thing, but they’re not helping to close the gaps either. Other folks can do it, and more power to them, but I won’t be party to perpetuating the us and them mindset. I just can’t see how that is a positive thing.
I hope this conversation can continue, and look forward to seeing more ideas and plans. I have to go finish preparations for the weekend’s hunt at Tejon Ranch and hit the road.
Be civil, be open, and be productive. Thanks.
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:38 am
Great line: “If women (or men) aren’t welcome in your camp, then you’re not welcome in mine.”
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:30 am
May 26th, 2008 at 8:00 am
[...] was reading Phillip’s well worded Hog Blog column “The Great Divide – The Gender Gap in the Hunting Community“. I found that it made me think more about what opportunities my daughters would have in [...]
June 4th, 2008 at 10:55 am